Bri: Hey there, everyone, and thanks for joining us on another episode of Queer Science! We are doing things differently today, as we wanna start out this episode with a little story from our guest, Dr. Devyani Singh and her journey from scientists to political candidate, but don’t worry, you’ll hear more from R and I shortly.

Dr. Singh: I’m Devyani Singh, and I am originally from India, I grew up in the Indian Himalayas where, you know hiking was- and my father was a military officer, and so I didn’t have a lot of stability… except for our family home in the Himalayas where I spent all my vacations. And it was then that this real love for environment, that nature and me began, it was… I used to go hiking and I started seeing the impacts of climate change back in the 80s and 90s on the glaciers, on wildlife, on species going extinct, increased wildfires, and I wanted to do something. But being a woman in India in the early 90s, there weren’t a lot of options as to what I could do. I really wanted to be a wildlife warden or just have like a NGO, but those were not options available. So it was really  doctor, engineer, or business, and so I said, alright, I don’t wanna be a doctor or an engineer- I’ll choose business, and I can do finance and make tons of money and then open up animal shelter homes and start an NGO haha. Because that’s what I could do. So I did business and I did finance, and I moved to the US to do an MBA in finance, and then worked in corporate America for a few years with Fortune 200 companies like global headquarters and Best Buy headquarters, as a Senior Financial Analyst… And it was then one day when I was working on this team, that was basically looking at closing factories in the US and moving them to Mexico because we could exploit environmental laws to make another billion probably for the company…. And that’s when I realized that what I’m doing and what I care about where my passion were at odds….

Intro music playing

R: My name is R, co-host, co-creator and resident artist of this podcast-

Bri: And I’m Bri your other co-host, editor and co-creator of the show!

R: Welcome to the last episode in this season of Queer Science! We’ve wrapped up recording for this year, but don’t worry – we’ll be back!

Bri: In case you can’t wait or simply want to see some sillier, more personal content, check out our Patreon! Monthly patreons can see our behind-the-scenes footage, Q & As, personalized doodles and just whatever ridiculous fun things we can think of as a thank you for supporting us! Find out more at patreon.com/queerscience!

R: Now, let’s get started.

Bri: For our final episode of this season, we talk to Dr. Devyani Singh who recently ran for office in Vancouver, Canada- 

R: Whoa, wait- what? Why are we interviewing a politician? Isn’t this a queer science show?

Bri: Well, Dr. Singh is also an accomplished scientist – and that’s only half of the reason we wanted to talk to her. Another reason is because being apolitical is not an option.. R, I and all other queer folks – really, any marginalized community – our lives and well-beings are defined by laws and legislation. Our identities become politicized. What we can or can’t do is a question during electoral debates. We have no choice but to pay attention to government actions and judicial outcomes. We must be political.

R: Not discussing the impact of politics on a show about queerness and science is simply not looking at the whole picture. It’s like observing yet ignoring a huge set of influential variables and saying “we don’t care about all that obvious evidence.” But we need to. We need to care more. Just like when Dr. Singh needed to abruptly change career paths….

Dr. Singh: So I called my sister in India, and she’s like, “you want the truth?” She’s like, “Ever since you were a child, all you would ever care about is nature, we supported you being a business, but that’s never really what you’ve cared about…” And so I quit, didn’t know what I do next, went on a soul searching trip for a while, and ended up doing a second Masters in Environmental science in the US. When I was doing that is when I realized this real passion that I had for nature and the environment. I reconnected with that and really want- loved- doing research. And so I started looking into PhD programs, and I actually got into a very nice public policy institute at the Arizona State University of Chardon, the one that’s in – not in Phoenix, ah I am forgetting the place. Anyway.. But it was around then I think, it was back in early 2000s when Arizona came up with that law where if the cops got you without your papers, they could just put you in jail overnight, and as a brown person, I was like, I don’t… If I’m doing my PhD, I don’t wanna go out in the evening to a bar and then end up in jail because I’m carrying my passport with me.

And, I’d also got admission at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada, and so I was like, You know what things were… I felt it was like the universe telling me go to UBC, and that’s how I ended up here in Vancouver, Canada in 2012, doing my PhD in the faculty of forestry, but focusing on energy and climate policy. And so that’s what I’ve been doing and I finished my PhD last year, and now I’m working as a post-doctoral fellow actually out of Pennsylvania, Harrisburg University, working remotely in Canada, and I’m working on oil and gas emissions in North America. So that’s what I’m doing and that’s… Yeah, I finally found my soul, and I’m happy with what I’m doing! Haha…

Bri: Yeah! So if you were working on climate and energy policy was… Were you already kind of in the political sphere with that stuff? I know you’re running now, but at that time, was that already… I think just the word policy itself, I’m thinking you’re already involved in politics….

Dr. Singh: Yeah, so as a scientist, when we do policy kind of research, policy relevant research, we’re not really directly involved in politics, we are doing research that can impact policies and regulations, such as the work I’m doing right now on methane emissions. It will inform Canadian federal regulations and provincial regulations on methane emissions tracking, so it’s non-partisan, it’s more relevant to what we do. Then for my PhD, I was working on- looking at getting cleaner cooking access to households in the Global South, because almost half the world still cooks on open fire every day, which is mind blowing. Or more than 55% of all wood extracted in the world is used for cooking. And you’re looking at those impacts. So, I was looking at climate impacts and health impacts and forest impacts, of getting clean cooking access, but it was directly relevant to policies in the Global South, such as in India, there was the Ujjwala campaign which was aimed at getting clean cooking access to 80 million households in three years, and so I actually did some work on that looking at its climate impact, so that’s what we mean by-when  we do climate and energy policy, is looking at policies, doing research that has direct implications for policy. So I was very obviously engaged in world politics because it impacts all of us, but I had never thought about running, until a couple months ago…

Bri: This past fall, Dr. Singh ran for office in Vancouver as part of the Greens Party of British Columbia, or BC Greens. The BC Greens are guided by what they refer to as their “six core principles,” that is:  participatory democracy, sustainability, social justice, respect for diversity, ecological wisdom, and non-violence. When talking with Dr. Singh, we were interested in how she got into politics as a scientist.

Dr. Singh: Yeah, as I was saying earlier, I had not thought about running for office… Yeah, I was doing science, I was writing op-eds, writing letters, doing policy relevant research, being the naive academic, as most scientists are- assuming that government someday, and politicians will listen to us and take action. And that was not happening. It’s not been happening. And in the past year, we’ve seen the climate impacts are getting worse, governments are, especially when it comes to climate change, are not listening. At least in British Columbia and Canada, unlike our neighbors south of the border, they do believe in science, and it is nationally, we recognize that the climate emergency, it’s just what differs between conservatives, liberals and other parties is how much action they want to take towards it. So at least we’re ahead on that, and especially in BC, Dr. Bonnie Henry has been phenomenal, people world-over have been talking about her actions dealing with the pandemic. So, we really listened to her, we really listened to the science. But at the same time, the government has totally ignored the science of climate change, and our Liberal party that was there for 17 years before the current government was always- people said they don’t care about climate, they don’t care about this and that, and then so this current government that has been there for three and a half years said “Oh, we are the climate conscious party.”… They came in an increased fossil fuel subsidy by almost 80% over the previous government. They came in and went ahead with all the projects they opposed while they were campaigning. And that’s when I realized that all these parties are the same, they don’t care, they only care about power, and once they come into power, it is the same lies across party lines. We’ve seen all these young student strikes happening all over the world, and the next four years are going to be critical, they’re going to be very important when it comes to climate action, because if we really want to keep our emissions down, and meet Paris targets of getting two degrees or 15 degrees centigrade global temperature wise, we really need to put the right policies, and especially in British Columbia… The current government has been going ahead with this one big LNG Canada fracking plant, that when it comes online in four years will be the single largest source of Canadian emissions. And then the government goes, “We have a clean BC plan, we’re going to be net zero by 2050!” When everything of this plant comes online, even if every other sector goes to zero, we will exceed our climate emissions targets by 160%.

So, it doesn’t fit in that. Which means they are again, just going ahead with the fossil fuel plan, and I just couldn’t sit back as a scientist, I was appalled and I… Again, they say be the change you wanna see in the world, and I decided to take the leap and I’m running with the Green Party because this is the only party that truly has cared and consistently has cared about the climate, they are the only… We had only three MLA’s- now two in the government when this was happening, who 14 times, they were the only ones in government voting against fossil fuel subsidy voting against all of these, but they were three compared to 80 MLA’s in the government, and so they are the only ones who have consistently shown that they are an evidence-based party. They care about climate and they care about people, they care about just transitions, and we just had a new leader elected a month ago, Sonia Furstenau… she’s wonderful, I am an awe of her. All of us who are running are in awe of her, and we’re just looking forward to her leadership in coming years because she will be wonderful, she was a school teacher, she’s done so much for the indigenous people in British Columbia, she is truly passionate about-as we say, people planet and prosperity.

And the Green Party has a plan for just transitions, and when I said as a scientist, I wanted to rrun with them them, they were very happy, they said we are an evidence-based party, and we would love to have you. Because we need young people, we need the voices of marginalized, we need the voice of science in government, which is why I’m running with them. And when it comes to their platform, I spoke to Sonia and she said, “You are unlike the NDP and the Liberals,”- both party lines, basically is what we call it, their votes are there no matter what they stand for, and once they get elected, they would vote the way NDP wants them to… I told Sonia, I said, “Look, I’m running because I really care about this.” And that’s what she said, she’s like, “You vote for what science and evidence tells you, and you’re not forced to vote party lines” which is what I want, although it’s funny because I do believe in the 90% or more of their platform, if not more! So I will be voting party lines… but I know that they care about the integrity and you and you serving the people, it’s not about… Once you get elected, it’s not about your political ideology in government, it’s about how best can you serve the people of British Columbia and your constituency? So yes, when it comes to the affordability crisis, when it comes to the opioid crisis that we’re facing in BC, when it comes to the climate crisis, when it comes to the pandemic, early childhood education, public health, all of this, their platform is the most comprehensive and the one that really doesn’t look at one sector, but it looks at people planet and prosperity, as one and the interconnectedness and so… Yes, that’s why I’m running with them. I truly do believe in the BC Greens.

Bri: I know- to another question I had earlier, when you were talking about bringing in the scientists and the experts- Our six question, I believe is… to ask a little bit about how you perceive social and environmental justice, so how do you see science, social justice and environmental justice interacting, ’cause I know that a lot of times that the environmental justice movement and environmental racism here in the United States, there has been oftentimes kind of hesitation with communities were being impacted by environmental racism and working with scientists, but a lot of work has been done in that kind of collaboration aspect between scientists and communities working together to change policy, so I was wondering a little bit more of your take there on that stuff.

Dr. Singh: Yes, and as you said, social, environmental and racial justice is actually… You can’t have one without the other. When you’re looking at the environmental impacts, we know how it disproportionally impacts developing countries, and it also impacts-in developed countries- the marginalized and the poor more. Most of these plants, polluting plants and all are put in neighborhoods of color. The poor people are the ones who don’t have the means to protect themselves from climate impacts, let’s say in India, India is feeling more impacts of climate change than the US or Canada, within India too, the rich can have air conditioners when the temperatures are hitting 50 degrees centigrade or 120 ferenheit, but the poor can’t… So they’re dying of the heat waves, they are dying of the flooding… Right, and so you really even be talking about racial justice and social justice and environmental justice, they’re really the same, because to get rid of one- we need to fix everything, if we fix the climate change issue, and it can truly only be fixed when we look at the social and the racial part of it, because again, we’re not leaving anyone behind, the other ones who get impacted most by it, the people of color, the indigenous people-it’s their lands that we are pushing these pipelines through without their consent, without their free prior and informed consent. In BC, we’ve been having a lot of issues with the police raiding Wet’suwet’enhe people territory because they’re pushing this pipeline- and they don’t want it. For the LNG plant, we have this big dam that’s being build…And again, the First Nations don’t want it… And so we’re not bringing them to the table, in fact, BC just past the UN declaration of the rights of indigenous people last year, but it’s done nothing about it, so these are all like again, political points that BC cares about you and Canada passed a climate emergency and in the next day Trudeau bought a pipeline. So this is the hypocrisy of politics and what it’s impacting, so we really need to work on the social racial and environmental justice piece at the same time, if we really want to leave a better future and a livable planet for future generations.

R:  When running for office, Dr. Singh aims to “enable a just transition to a low carbon future.” She’s mentioned this in the last segment and it’s a frequent topic on her twitter. But what exactly does a “just transition” mean?

Dr. Singh: You must have heard- and people talk a lot about energy transitions, and right now in the US with the elections coming up, people are talking about “we need to transition, we need to transition off fossil fuels,” so the word transition relates to… going away from fossil fuels to cleaner sources of energies, through low carbon energy resources, the “just” part  is… we wanna make sure it’s equitable for everyone and no one gets left behind, especially let’s say the workers in the fossil fuel industry. We’ve seen a collapse of the forestry industry that we did not see coming, and so many people out the jobs we had ghost towns, we’ve seen that in coal areas, so we want to make sure that we know this transition is coming, that we can cater to all these needs, so the just part relates to: how do we help these people working in fossil and oil and gas in coal, transition to good, healthy paying jobs. In new industry and a new sector. And there are many ways to do that – we have had just transitions from coal in Alberta actually in Canada, we’ve had in Spain, and there are lessons to be learned.

Some of the things this comes down to is setting up… let’s say a fund- where people can tap into when… If they want to go back to learn new skills, new trades and new skills, so it’s retraining of the workforce. Because you might need new skills, and let’s say in the solar and wind industry compared to what you had in the oil and gas. At the same time, there might be some people who aren’t able to learn new skills or transition, there might be an older population. In that case, we want to set up things like early retirement funds, and so it’s like they still have ways to maintain their livelihoods. The other thing is oil and gas is a very high paying industry, over $100,000 for these people, and it’s likely that in the first few years of these clean energy transitions, they won’t have that kind of money and salaries. That oil and gas industry does. So we want to set up things like wage insurance such that the gap gets covered- because a lot of people don’t want to willingly leave $120,000 job, let’s say to move to a $80,000 job. So you want to tell them, “Okay, this is better for you, this is a permanent long-term job, but you get covered for that $40,000 difference, if you do it voluntarily,” and so that’s what we mean by “just transition,” it is setting up these systems and these policies in place to make sure that nobody gets left behind as we lead this transition, because you hear a lot of the right wing around the world saying, “Oh, you’re going to leave these people and it’s about jobs,”  it’s because they like to ignore the “just” part of the transition, it’s trying to create fear, saying, “Look at these progressive people, the progressive policies and the progressive parties don’t care about you,” they want to transition away, whereas everyone in the progressive side will always talk about “just transitions” because we know what we need to do… To help them transition, we don’t want to leave people behind, they are… Our friends our family or relatives, we care about them, and so that’s what we mean by a “just transition” – it is making sure it’s equitable to everybody and we don’t leave anybody behind, and nobody really gets to feel the negative impacts of a transition- that we know is coming and that we need to do for the sake of this planet.

R: With the transition stuff, particularly in the Appalachian Mountains, like where we are, there’s a culture around being a miner and there’s a pride in that kind of work. Have you ever come across that same kind of cultural divide of like, “I’m proud to be a miner, even though it’s giving me black lung and I’m gonna die from it,” there’s a cultural identity with that, and have you had any experience where you kind of have to convince someone that that doesn’t have to be their identity? Have you ever encountered that cultural clash?

Dr. Singh: I personally haven’t, but I have heard of this. And I think one of the ways I feel sometimes that that identity has also been pushed a lot in our narratives, saying it’s your job, you should be proud of this, you’re a coal miner, and it… But if you can start telling them that you can have the same pride in being a… I don’t know, solar installer or wind industry person you know… I think the pride comes from a sense of belonging to a place-to an industry, and that is something that can be created, it’s a culture that can be created, and as long as… And if we can promote the negative impacts, like you mentioned, black lung and, also that these are temporary jobs, a lot of oil and gas jobs are temporary because it’s a boom and bust cycle where when pipelines are getting built, there are thousands of jobs and two years later those jobs are gone, creating very few permanent jobs. So when you start telling them that “Great… You’re proud of this, but we can give you good paying, healthier permanent jobs in these new industries and new sectors.” I think there is a way, and I mean, of course we probably… I’m sure there are people out there doing research on this narrative, that’s not been my field of expertise, but it is interesting because it’s kind of like changing people’s behaviors and cultural values, which is kind of what I faced when I was doing energy transitions work in the households, trying to get clean cooking access. As you mentioned, it makes sense, about three million people die every year because of cooking on open fire, it’s the PM 2.15, it’s bad for the children who are sitting there, it’s unsafe, it’s a lot of labor burden… So you would think if you’re giving them a better cookstove, they would be very happy to transition… but it’s simple things like, “Well, but the food doesn’t taste… as good. If you cook it on gas or electricity- it’s like barbecue, the smoky flavor,” or, “This is the way it’s been done, or “My time to go collect wood is my social time.” So I think these cultural and behavioral issues that we really will have to work on along with just providing those monetary and system-institutional support for a transition, I think we’ll need to do…There’ll be a lot of narrative that will have to be focused around creating this new identity. And a sense of belonging. I think that’s a very good point you brought up, and it is something that needs to be looked into as we go into the future because… the energy transition is coming, whether we like it or not.

R: Gotcha, ’cause I don’t have family that we’re coal miners, but I’ve been to areas in which coal mining is the industry, or… I did a study abroad aka, “just go a couple degrees north and get to Canada,” and I actually stayed at UBC. So it’s a great place, I love it. I wish I could go there if I had enough money.

Dr. Singh: But that is a big issue, affordability!

R: But we saw the same thing with some of the forestry industry and how it used to be this foundational thing on the West Coast, and then it’s the demand sort of changed and jobs changed. And there is that whole… I don’t know, it’s a sense of loss, but not only just a sense of loss in terms of a natural resources being depleted, it’s also lost in the sense of like, this is how I was raised. This is what my grandfather did. This is what my father did. This what I’m supposed to do. That’s not there anymore. So, I’ve come across several situations in which there is that cultural dynamic of like, this is what we’re supposed to do, this is how it’s been done, you said that kind of holding on to tradition, and then it’s sort of like… It’s really hard sometimes to kind of change that narrative, like you’re saying…

Bri: We’ve talked to Dr. Singh about her career as a scientist, and how she got into politics – but what about her queer identity? How does that tie into her as a scientist and politician?

R: So you’ve mentioned a lot about how growing up in India kind influenced your love of nature, and you mentioned a bit about being a brown person in Arizona… but is there any way that your queer identity has sort of shaped your career and your policies and your view on things?

Dr. Singh: Well, in a way, the queer identity, it probably also helped me want to quit corporate America, because when I was there, one of the places I was working for, my supervisor basically did not like the fact that I was queer and told me either I quit or he will fire me and then I will be sent back because my H1 visa would expire or I could put in my resignation and they’d give me three months salary to find another job. Right… and I wasn’t protected for sexual orientation in that state at that point, and so things like that, hiding who I was all through my corporate life, probably also pushed me towards the academic field where- I’m not saying academia doesn’t have homophobia or racism or sexism, but it’s a lot less, especially in… at UBC, where I’ve been… It’s like one of the most progessive places, first you’re in Canada, then you’re in Vancouver, and then you’re at UBC. I’ve been very lucky that way- Is that UBC, and to be out and be me… Like this election, I’m running as an openly queer candidate, and in the US, all I can think of is hiding my identity, because I still work… I was in Pennsylvania before COVID hit for a few months, and I was in Harrisburg, which is fossil fuel run, you  come across climate deniers and sort of interesting people in those parts, but… Yeah, so I think the queer has, in a way, shape me, but as I mentioned that the queer, the people of color and women and indigenous people… immigrants, these are the ones who face the most impacts of climate change because we are the marginalized… And usually, we don’t have access to the resources to adapt or protect ourselves from climate catastrophes, and so definitely all those parts of me has made me who I am, and the immigrant is very important, as I mentioned, India has been feeling the impact of climate change for a long time, Bangladesh is flooding. Growing up there- my whole family is there, I’m the only one who lives here. My mom there and my aunt, my sister, they all live in India, and these impacts are real- and they are facing them! And so it to me, makes me fight more for climate justice because action taken anywhere in the world impacts everywhere in the world, when it comes to climate change.

R: So do you see a lot more scientists… as kind of like a wave of scientists getting into politics, do you think this is the start of science really entering politics and being the foundation of it, do you see this as a movement?

Dr. Singh: I hope so…because, actually in the BC Greens of this election, there’s another recent PhD from UBC, she’s an ecologist, she’s running as well, so we’re the two scientists running with the BC party from Vancouver itself. So, it shows which party the scientists are choosing, which party, the mental health experts are choosing, and which party the lawyers who are working on opoid and human rights are choosing. It’s an amazing slate of candidates, we have, and each one is an expert in our own field, so I really do think it is time for experts to get into politics, traditionally, the way politics has been done has failed society all around the world. The marginalized are falling through the cracks, the poor are getting poorer, diversity is- no one cares about diversity and the voices of the marginalized… So what I found interesting in the last two weeks of campaigning is as a scientist, I’m used to speaking and asking questions and getting good answers and a discussion, and I’m in debates with other candidates, and now you ask a question and they just… “Oh, you’re almost simplifying things, that’s not how it works…” but we’re in the debate and there’s a public- this is some things I’ve learnt from science communication- you simply things to help people understand. You wanna talk complexities? Please, bring it on. That’s my research. But I feel like they just say something totally different to push you off or to undermine you without actually answering.

So, I really feel we need more scientists, more experts, so we can actually have too… We can have discussions about based on facts, based on evidence, I mean, what’s the point of so much science out there and all the scientists… If no one’s going to listen to us? So, I really think it’s exchanging. In fact, we have this one, we have a young climate activist- two actually, young climate activists running for the BC greens this year, one of them just turned 18 a couple of weeks ago, making her eligible to run, Kate O’Connor- and she’s running, and we have Harrison Johnston, he’s just turned 21, and he created the largest climate strike in Vancouver last year, so they’re getting the voices of the young because the youngest MLA in BC is right now 35 years. Do they really know what the young people who are graduating high school in British Columbia are going through right now? When they can’t- they don’t understand how they’re going to pay for higher education or afford to have a house? Because we have such a housing crisis in this place… so, I feel we need young people- we need activists, we need scientists, we need experts, we need these voices in government, we don’t need career politicians. That old traditional politics, it’s time for it to leave, it’s time for a new system of politics and governance, which is truly for the people and by the people…

R: Again, I’m still sitting here, I’m like, “Wow, this is like, this is the point that should be made all the time,” and I’m just like finally… Yeah, I sort of am agreeing with everything you’re saying, and I’m just like… Yes, yes, exactly. So it’s a big relief to sort of have that voice, both of the scientist and of marginalized identity running in politics, like you mentioned, that maybe if you don’t win, there’s still… That action happened, and that is a step forward and just making that noise and making your voice heard… like I’m just over here like, why can’t this happen here?

Bri: I’m super inspired right now, I’m like, Yeah, very inspirational conversation…

Dr. Singh: Run for office!

Bri and R: oooof…

R: Let me get through school first, and then we’ll see what happens.

Bri: Yeah…haha

Dr. Singh: I mean we have Kate O’Connor running, who just turned 18 running, and we have people in college right now running, so what?

Bri: True, true..

Dr. Singh: It’s your future, your future is at stake here, it’s time to take control of it, don’t let the grown up mess it up even more than we have …

Bri: Yeah that’s true, that’s very true. R is sitting over there like…

R: Should I…?

Dr. Singh: I didn’t realize that I was so, like nobody wants to get their hands dirty with politics, but then you have your integrity… you don’t have to be the person who gets the hands dirty, you can get in there and try to start cleaning it up from the inside, and in the last three weeks, I’ve got a whole different perspective about how I can actually make an impact. And I’m really empowered by that, and just the amount of support I have seen from people-they don’t know who I am, I’m a new candidate- and there’s people emailing you say, “Thank you for giving us hope and you’re just what we need, we need most science, we need need facts.” Or I’m on the street and somebody the other day say, “Oh, are you a Devyani? I just wanted to thank you, thank you so much for running and giving us hope” or people saying that “You’re science… you understand this, we need you.” You’re just- the support, and then people’s donations and the volunteers, and I’ve just been overwhelmed with all the support and love and the faith that people have put in me, and that’s given me the energy.. and I feel more empowered that I can actually truly make a difference for all those people. I thought I was a nobody, and suddenly here I am giving all these people hope, for a change.

Bri: That concludes everything for this episode, and for our very first season! For more information regarding what we discussed in this episode, be sure to check out our show notes. A transcript of this episode can be found on our website at queerscience. show. If you liked this episode, you can tell us why by tweeting us @queer_science. You can find us on facebook as Queer Science or follow us on instagram @queer_sci. We are even on TikTok too and you can find us @queerscience. The Queer Science team believes that educational content should be accessible to all, and we are a small team of twenty-somethings working to bring this podcast to our audience for free. If you like our work, consider giving the co-hosts a tip by supporting us at patreon.com/queerscience. You can also donate to our GoFundMe which allows for us to afford microphones, recording software and website upkeep. We also have merch too, featuring the queer science logo and more original designs by our co-host R! Want to support us? You can find out more by checking out our website queerscience. show.

R: Thanks for listening!